Marjorie Orr

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Historic Royals

Queen Victoria - Mrs Brown From: Marjorie. (30 Nov 2008 20:34):
Did she or didn''t she with John Brown? I''d reckon yes from the astrology - of which more below.
Queen Victoria reigned for 63 years over the UK at the height of its powers commercially and globally. She produced 9 children, 42 grandchildren whose marriages she arranged tying the Royal Houses of Europe together. She had an extraordinarily difficult chart. A 12th house Gemini New Moon conjunct Ascendant is sextile a Saturn Pluto conjunction in late Pisces, which is turn is square a Uranus Neptune conjunction in Sagittarius. She would be restless, nervy, highly strung (multiple mutable planets), very tough minded and gritty (Sat Pl), autocratic (Ur sq Sat), rebellious (Ur sq Pl), neurotic (Sat sq Nep) and communicative with a sharp, bright mind (emphasised Gemini).What softened the rougher edges of her chart and her life was a successful Jupiter in Aquarius in the 10th on the point of a mini grand trine to Mars in Aries trine Uranus in Sag - so she was adventurous (Mars Ur, Jup Ur), courageous (Mars Jup) and lucky (Jup Ur). She did survive several assassination attempts and attacks. Her Venus was also in upfront Aries so she had a sparky emotional approach.
She was not in the direct line of succession to the throne but various uncles died leaving her as Queen just after her 18th birthday. Her childhood was scholastic but highly restricted by her oppressive mother who feared assassination attempts on her life and wanted to control her every move (afflicted Pluto) to promote her own interests in money and power. The mother had a determined Leo Sun opp Sat Pluto square an extravagant, indulgent Jupiter in Taurus. Victoria said later her tough childhood prepared her for what came next and on succeeding to the throne she banished her mother to separate accommodation.
She proposed to and married her cousin Prince Albert which was supposedly a great love affair producing nine children. But there is not too much showing from the astrology of deep affection. He was a Virgo Sun with a Scorpio Moon and Mars in Gemini opp Uranus Neptune square Saturn Pluto so would be a curious combination of highly strung and utterly determined, probably given to depression. His Venus in Leo does trine Victoria''s Venus in Aries which does hint at good feelings between them and his Sun falls in her 4th house which would bring her home comfort as well as a solid base for his life. Her Gemini New Moon is conjunct his midheaven so she undoubtedly helped him to prominence and shaped his career. His Mars in his 10th made him highly ambitious and he did work towards the abolition of slavery and educational reform, helped Victoria in the running of her household and estates, and persuaded to keep the monarchy out of politics. In their relationship chart the composite Venus is opposition Uranus Neptune and square Saturn Pluto which looks very difficult - tho'' a Royal lifestyle probably needs a tough approach. Venus was in the 1st so there would be an appearance of love though many separations (Ur Nep in 7th) and far too much duty (Sat Pl). What would help was an 8th house Jupiter (good for money and sex) squaring onto Mars, opp Moon which would provide a few indulgences.
Admittedly when he died with Victoria''s Solar Arc Neptune conjunct her natal Saturn Pluto conjunction she would be devastated. Neptune undermined her gritty, strong minded approach perhaps because her main support system had disappeared. And her SA Pluto just into her natal 12th was conjunct her Mercury making for the deep depression which sent her into seclusion for years thereafter.
At which point John Brown, the Scottish servant, seven years younger than Victoria, arrived to become an intimate confidante and supporter. There has been much rumour and controversy over their alleged romantic relationship, perhaps even a private marriage. Brown was a Sagittarius with an Aries Moon so picked up her passionate Mars and Venus in Aries. His Mars in Aquarius was also conjunct her Jupiter which would boost her morale and perhaps lead both into taking risks. The relationship chart had an affectionate Venus Sun conjunction with the Sun also conjunct Mars and an adventurous Jupiter square to Mars and Sun - so in many ways was a more affectionate and vital relationship than the one she had with her husband.

The Madness of King George From: Marjorie. (29 Nov 2008 11:47):
The Madness of King George seems as interesting a place as any to continue down the British Monarchy. George 111 of movie fame was the first of the German Hanoverian Kings to be born (1738) and educated in England. He was a Sun Saturn Gemini sextile Mars Jupiter in Aries - so was a curious mix of serious, self doubting and very confident. He oversaw the English victory in the Seven Years War, the loss of the US colonies and the set up of Great Britain in 1801 - so career-wise he did well(Mars Jup) and not so well (Sat) which fits. He married another Gemini oddly enough in what seemed to have been an exceptionally happy marriage which produced 15 children - perhaps partly due to Queen Charlotte''s passionately sensual Venus Mars in Taurus opposition Pluto. She also had an Air Grand Trine of Gemini, Jupiter, Uranus so presumably rose above any problems. They first met on their wedding day. Their relationship chart has an affectionate Sun Venus conjunction and a gloss-over-difficulty Jupiter Neptune conjunction as well. Tho'' it wouldn''t all be a picnic since there was also a very tough minded Mars opp Pluto square Saturn presumably soaked up by the pressures of a Royal lifestyle.
George 111 was born two months prematurely and died insane it is thought from porphyria. He lived to be 81 and reigned for 59 years which was a record (strong Saturn) and was renowned for his morality (no mistresses - Venus in Cancer loves home comforts), his promotion of agriculture and his prudence.
In best dysfunctional Royal Family style, his grandfather George 11 spent a lifetime fighting his son, George 111''s father Frederick Prince of Wales who didn''t live to inherit and his own father George 1. Grandpa George 11 was an intense Sun, Mercury, Venus in Scorpio with a very angry Mars opp Pluto square Uranus - so he''d be extremely charming, vengeful and rebellious.
When George 111 succumbed to his mental illness in the later stages of his life a transitting Saturn Neptune conjunction (often associated with illness) was square transitting Pluto and all three were aspecting across his Gemini planets and then his Neptune in Cancer. The same would be true of his wife Queen Charlotte as tr Saturn Nep opposed her natal Sun as tr Pluto opposing her Saturn in Virgo. She didn''t see her husband for the last ten years of his life.
He was succeeded by his son, George 1V - of foppish fame from the movie - who did indeed have an extravagant, arrogant Jupiter in Taurus opposition Mars squaring onto a Sun Neptune in Leo so was a showman and flamboyant though hardly realistic.

James 1 - tricky childhood From: Marjorie. (28 Nov 2008 19:51):
King James 1 (V1 of Scotland) who was crowned King of Scotland aged 13 months and when 35 succeeded Queen Elizabeth 1 as King of England as well, certainly had a tumultuous childhood. His mother Mary, Queen of Scots, had his father murdered when he was 7 months old, and she was imprisoned when he was a year old. He never saw her again and she was beheaded twenty years later.
He was an amiable Sun, Mercury in Cancer square Jupiter in Libra so was lucky, probably lazy and deserved his reputation for financial irresponsibility. Venus in Taurus on his midheaven would make him charming, a good diplomat and with Neptune also in the 10th both kindly and rather visionary. His Neptune is tied into a generational opposition to Uranus in the 4th (= disrupted childhood and how!) squaring onto a 7th house Pluto in Pisces. So he''d be highly strung, fairly controlling, definitely nervy. He has a difficult Mars Saturn conjunction in Leo but very hidden in the 12th square his Venus and midheaven so he''d suppress his anger, fear and ruthless streak. [One of Mars Saturn''s manifestations I''ve noticed recently is it often coincides tho'' not always with a parent who died young.] In his early life he seemed uninterested in women though he did marry to produce an heir; and was reputed to be bi-sexual. His Moon is sparsely aspected being sextile Jupiter and very widely trine Uranus - he probably idealised both parents in best Cancerian fashion.
His mother, Mary, Queen of Scots, was a different kettle of fish altogether. A bold Sagittarius with a ruthless Mars Pluto conjunction in Aquarius square a highly determined Saturn in Scorpio; with Mars Pluto trine a confident Jupiter, as well as being opposite a no-compromise Uranus in Leo - she was no mean adversary. Certainly not sensible, but utterly fixed on her ambitions, and her plots. Not nice but certainly courageous as she showed at her execution. She has an overly confident Jupiter Neptune opposition squaring onto Moon Mercury in Capricorn so she was driven by religious fervour and was hyper-sensitive, highly emotional, impatient, driven to grasp public attention.
When she was beheaded tr Pluto was exactly conjunct her Solar Arc Moon''s North Node having been criss crossing her SA Mars and SA Pluto square SA Saturn just before. Transitting Mars was then opposition transitting Pluto and exactly opp her SA Mars/Pluto midpoint. So definitely tough times and risky, total suppression.
When she was beheaded, James'' chart shows a great deal of agitation with his Solar Arc Mars Saturn conjunction having come into exact hard aspect to his tricky T square of natal Uranus opp Neptune square Pluto - forming a Mutable Grand square so he would be extremely stressed by it. The transitting Mars Pluto opposition then was also hard aspecting his Solar Arc Nep opp Ur square Pl T square. Not a good year for him.
When he was crowned King of England in 1603 his Solar Arc Mars Saturn was conjunct his Jupiter perhaps softening the hardness of his life''s experiences to date. Though both transitting and Solar Arc Pluto were trine his natal Mars Saturn so there were great challenges and pressures around. On the day itself the transitting Moon Venus Mars in Cancer were close to his Sun and the transitting Leo Sun was conjunct his Solar Arc Sun = happy, popular, great celebration and enthusiasm with him centre of attention - making one wonder whether someone picked the date astrologically.

Cromwell''s bleeding heart From: Marjorie. (25 Nov 2008 11:55):
Cromwell''s personality doesn''t leap out from his chart as a bleeding heart sentimentalist awash with regret. Quite the contrary. I''m not sure anyway how one would see a conscience in a chart since to some degree it''s a question of the evolution (level of personal growth) of the personality which the astrology won''t pin point. Pisces can suggest regret but as with Saturn in Pisces it tends to be regret about hurts done to one in the past rather than a guilty conscience about one''s own actions.
With four planets in Aries including Mars (and Mars was opposition Saturn) - he comes across as a straight-up-the-middle-of-the-road-and-do-what-is-necessary-no-matter-how-ruthless kind of guy. He''s also got a self sufficient, very focussed New Moon in Taurus. He does have Jupiter in Cancer which is essentially kind and generous and indulgent - but it sounds as if it was very squashed out of existence by the Saturn Mars square. There wasn''t much of note going on in Cromwell''s chart itself when Chas 1 was beheaded. On Cromwell''s relationship chart with Chas 1 the beheading shows up as both brutal (tr Saturn Pluto trine comp Mars) and a relief (an upbeat tr Jupiter trine Mars). Cromwell had got rid of an obstacle in his way and could now proceed in best Martian fashion to follow through on his ambitions. After all the Greek myth of Mars, god of war, was that he met his father coming the other way in a narrow gorge, so he killed him in order to be able to proceed. There wasn''t enough room for both of them.
Life was nasty, brutish and short in these days and incredibly cheap so it''s not a good idea to transplant 21st Century attitudes onto some of their actions then. They still disembowelled people and stuck their heads on pikes. And Royals had an especially fraught time of it always at risk of being bumped off one way or another.

Charles 1 and Cromwell From: Marjorie. (23 Nov 2008 11:26):
Charles 1 was a late Scorpio and Oliver Cromwell an early New Moon in Taurus so it was a stubborn match. Charles was a weakly child so I''d doubt the story about the fight - he couldn''t walk or talk till he was three and even as an adult was very small and not robust. Though there was certainly no love lost between them.
Charles had an autocratic Uranus in Taurus opposition Saturn in Scorpio, with his Saturn exactly conjunct Cromwell''s Sun, close to Cromwell''s Moon - so there were blockages, coldness and a distinctly disruptive dynamic to their relationship. Cromwell born 6 months earlier than Charles had the Uranus Pluto and Mercury conjunction in Aries so was a revolutionary at heart. Plus a Mars in Aries opp Saturn square Jupiter - so was cruel, military, lucky and patriotic, ambitious, full of initiative. Charles has a more scattered chart with a Full Moon (probably), the see saw Sat Ur opp and a reckless Mars Venus in Sag square Jupiter.
Cromwell''s Uranus Pluto conjunction falls conjunct the 1066 England ascendant which is descriptive of a man who changed the image of the country radically in a few short years. On the 973 England chart his Ur Pluto plus Mercury and Taurus New Moon all fall in the 9th house hinting at the religious basis for some of the argument, switching the country down a more Protestant/Puritan road. Cromwell''s Uranus is also exactly trine the England 973 Pluto so he was custom built to push through changes to the power structure.
When Charles 1 was beheaded in 1649 the transitting Saturn Pluto opposition Uranus Neptune was almost exactly squaring onto a transitting Moon Mars conjunction in Virgo opposition Venus in Pisces - so producing a transitting Mutable Grand Square - the whirlwind of change was definitely wreaking havoc. Interestingly Charles 1 Solar Arc directions at the time of his death saw SA Pluto at 11 Gemini caught up in the hard aspects from tr Sat Pluto opp Ur Nep. So transits to SA directions certainly help to show up major life events.
What is fascinating about all of this highly mutable, fast change energy around in the heavens. There in the middle was the man, Oliver Cromwell, who stirred it all up, was the agent for change, and he didn''t have a mutable planet in his chart - - he was all Cardinal (Aries, Cancer, Libra) and Fixed (Taurus, Leo).

Richard 111 - Machiavellian & Murderer? From: Marjorie. (15 Nov 2008 11:18):
Solving murder mysteries by astrology could be fun. The background to this one is King Richard 111 of England, made famous by Shakespeare in the later play as the villainous hunchback. It is thought to protect his somewhat dubious claim to the throne he had his nephews, the two princes aged 10 and 13 murdered in the Tower of London though there is no absolute proof and much controversy over the matter amongst historians.
Deliciously Richard had a chart relatively similar to Vladimir Putin and Peter Mandelson (UK politician known as the Prince of Darkness) - a Sun Saturn in Libra with Neptune also in Libra. So the astrology certainly backs up Richard''s Machiavellian reputation. There are further similarities with Putin since both charts have a ruthless Mars trine Pluto, and a fixed sign Venus Jupiter hard aspect. The Venus Jupiter gives a veneer of charm, a surface friendliness that belies the real intentions. In Shakespeare''s words:
"And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends stolen out of holy writ,
And seem a saint when most I play the devil."

What is also obvious in Richard''s chart is a striking Mars in Aries opposition to Saturn and the Sun. The strong Mars Saturn motif is repeated in both young Princes'' charts. In the old astrology texts Mars Saturn was connected to assassination. Though in more modern parlance it also fits a tough childhood which was always the case with young royals. Prince Edward had a Sun Mars Neptune in Scorpio with Sun Mars opp Saturn in Taurus which is a very heavy duty karma. His brother Prince Richard had a Saturn Mars conjunction in Cancer trine Uranus in Scorpio sextile Sun Venus in Virgo which is equally bleak and risky.
The composite charts of both young Princes with their uncle Richard 11 are suggestive of relationships that were cruel and possibly violent. The younger Prince Richard/King Richard relationship chart has a Saturn Pluto conjunction square Mars in Taurus which sounds like brutal suppression with a Sun Uranus conjunction suggesting co-operation was not an option. The older Prince Edward/King Richard relationship chart has a Mars opp Saturn square Sun Venus again suggestive of a relationship that would always be at cross purposes with the risk of an explosion of resentment - one can''t be who they want with the other in the same space. At Richard 111''s Coronation which is roughly when the young Princes disappeared a tr Saturn Mars square was picking up the Mars opp Sat squ Sun on one composite, and tr Uranus was square the Uranus Sun conj on the other - so the Coronation of Richard 111 at the very least had a devastating impact on their relationship. The young Princes'' own composite had a tough, risky Mars Pluto conjunction square Saturn which tr Uranus was detonating at the time of their supposed death.
It is intriguing how Mars Saturn runs right through all the charts, the Coronation and the composites - as if that was the dominant theme of Richard 111''s life and reign. Oddly enough, and I''ve no idea what this means, when Richard 111 was crowned his natal Sun Saturn opp Mars had moved by Solar Arc to a Scorpio Sun Saturn opp Mars which was almost exactly the same position as Prince Edward''s natal Scorpio Sun Mars opp Saturn. I recollect remarking on something similar down the postings about something else so worth looking out for. SA directions bringing two fates into collision.
Mars Saturn tends to be hard edged, resentful, not relaxed in having fun or being frivolous, can in its negative aspect be cruel.
"And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days." Richard 111.
King Richard 111 2 Oct 1452 JC
Prince Edward 4 Nov 1470 JC
Prince Richard 17 Aug 1473 JC
Coronation 6 July 1483 JC

Royals and Calendars From: Marjorie. (09 Nov 2008 10:27):
The change from the Julian to the Gregorian Calendar is a horror since not all sources indicate which calendar they are working from. And on top of that into the 17th Century they were still using March 25th as the New Year, so our Feb 1647 would be recorded as in year 1646.
All historical charts need to be taken with a pinch of salt anyway but Queen Elizabeth 1 definitely Sept 17 NS (new style) or GC calendar. And Mary 1 is 28 Feb 1516 GC 4.13 am Greenwich, London - both courtesy of Lois Rodden. The data I gave for Henry V11 and Eliz 1 was JC but the software converted it to GC so the planetary positions are accurate. I''ve changed the posting below to all GC. Anne Boleyn was Astrotheme data and other historical references have her born in 1503, 7 or 9 so who knows?
Mary 1, daughter of Henry V111 and Catherine of Aragon was a Sun, Venus in Pisces with a suppressed square from a 12th house Saturn in self righteous Sagittarius which perhaps explains her religious obsession. Her Sun was exactly opposition an 8th house Virgo Moon which suggests split parents and a deep ambivalence within herself about what she wanted from life and relationships. Not surprising she stayed a virgin till 38 and then fell passionately in love (8th house Moon). Pluto and Mars both in Capricorn sit either side of the Ascendant so she did have a heavy life being responsible for the death of numerous Protestant dissidents having returned England to Catholicism - Mars and Pluto both opp Jupiter. And she died young and childless at 42 of probably a pituitary tumour. It''s an unhappy, uncomfortable chart.
Catherine of Aragon 16 Dec 1485 JC - first wife of Henry V111 and mother of Mary 1 of England - was Capricorn Sun with a raft of Sagittarian planets - Mars, Saturn, Neptune, Mercury, Jupiter, Uranus. She was highly educated, became more religious with age and was instrumental in promoting education for women - all of which fit in with the heavily Sagittarian influences in her chart. But she certainly didn''t have an easy life (Mars Saturn Neptune) being kept as a virtual prisoner after her first husband the heir to the English throne died. That marriage was declared unconsummated and she then married the young Henry, five years her junior. She went on to have multiple miscarriages with Mary 1, her only live child. She then had her marriage to henry annulled against her wishes to allow for his marriage to Anne Boleyn.

Henry & Anne Boleyn From: Marjorie. (08 Nov 2008 18:49):
Ann Boleyn was a Sun Mars Mercury Taurus with Saturn in Leo and Neptune in Aquarius so fairly stubborn to put it mildly. Oddly enough there''s nothing too riveting about their relationship. She did have her Venus conjunct his 8th house Moon so there would be a depth of feeling initially and with her Moon conjunct his Pluto a good deal of possessiveness. But they were very different personalities - he was a Water Sun, Fire Moon and she was an Earth Sun, Air Moon. And their composite is inordinately difficult. There''s a freedom loving not very stable Jupiter Uranus opposition which squares onto a totally trapped Saturn Pluto conjunction in Scorpio. With an undermining Mars opp Neptune Moon. The death knell quite literally of that marriage was sounded the day of his tournament injury in 1536 which caused her to miscarry a male child. At that point tr Saturn was exactly square the focal point T square on the composite chart hinting at a complete road block in their relationship; as well as tr Pluto conjunct the composite Saturn which says much the same. Tr Saturn was also within two degrees of her Saturn return heading for her Ascendant which certainly indicates a reality check and a low profile period to follow - but even Saturn doesn''t normally point to a beheading. Makes you glad you don''t live in the 16th century.
Jane Seymour doesn''t appear to have a birth date so tricky to say what made her a more amiable companion. Though by that time Henry had tr Jupiter into his 7th and across his 8th so mellowing somewhat.
If you want celebrity, politician or historical charts you can find them on:
http://www.astrotheme.com which is now in English and free. You don''t have to join or sign in. How solid their data is I don''t know but it''s useful if not available elsewhere.
Otherwise most astrological software will calculate way back and sort out the calendar changes.
Henry V111 7 July 1491 8.45 am NS London
Anne Boleyn 5 May 1507 11.30 am London
Elizabeth 1 17 Sept 1533 3pm NS London
Victoria 24 May 1819 4.15 am London.

Henry V111 and Royals From: Marjorie. (08 Nov 2008 11:50):
Henry V111 of the six wives who caused the English split with Rome was a Cancer Sun opposition a 5th house Uranus - so fond of families but constantly changing ones. His Sun also squared an Aries Moon so he could never quite decide what he wanted emotionally, certainly never what he had. His Uranus also squared Pluto so he was always likely to cause upsets and live through turbulent times. He had a confident, lucky, social butterfly Venus and Jupiter in Gemini in the 10th. The main driving force of his chart was Jupiter opposition a 4th house Neptune square Mars in Virgo in the 1st, so he was impulsive, scattered, with a low boredom threshold, impatient, nervy, tended to start what he didn''t want to finish. The Jupiter Neptune would make him impractical and unrealistic, given to flights of fancy. Jupiter trine Pluto gave him a forceful edge.
He didn''t have a brutal chart, just a rather whirlwind, confrontational approach to life especially his domestic and emotional affairs. He succeeded to the throne when only 17 and he did live in mediaeval times where life was cheaper. I suspect he acted often in the heat of the moment.
Oddly enough I was watching a documentary about the young Queen Victoria recently and looked up her chart. She was not in the direct line of succession to the throne but had a highly possessive, manipulative mother, who saw her claim as the high road to wealth and power. It was always said her tough upbringing was what gave her the backbone to rule in later years. When various direct descendants died and she became Queen at 18, she banished her mother. Victoria was a 12th house New Moon in early Gemini sextile a Saturn Pluto conjunction in late Pisces so was used to bleakness, which bred in her real grit and perseverance, and she was used to living a hidden life (12th house). Like Henry she had a successful Jupiter in the 10th. She also had a passionate, upfront Mars and Venus in Aries, so what she wanted emotionally, she went for; and these were trine a Neptune Uranus conjunction in Sagittarius so she was fiery. Her Ur Nep square her Saturn Pluto so she didn''t have an easy chart, yet ruled successfully for six decades.
The other great English monarch Queen Elizabeth 1, Henry V111''s daughter, had a wide Mutable Grand Square of a Virgo Sun opposition Neptune square Jupiter opposition Mars in Gemini. Like Henry she was heavily mutable (adaptable, restless, scattered) though a Saturn Pluto opposition gave her grit.
Late degree mutable seems to figure in these three charts which rather points to the 973 AD England chart with its Jupiter in late Virgo square Saturn in late Gemini. Our present Queen Elizabeth 11 has a chart more redolent of the 1801 UK chart both being very fixed.

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